Discussion Triggered by Testosterone Information Resources Thread

[djmac]

Testosterone levels by age.
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/8324/atlbaul6.jpg

Heh,

Looks like I should be peaking at my age (38).

I guess that explains all the chest hair I recently sprouted :cool: :D

[Michael112]

I do find it hard to believe, although thats the 2nd source I have read that it peaks in the 30s, but I believe it peaks during puberty or atleast shortly after, before coming across all this medical stuff I believed it peaked at the age of 25.

[stitch]

and the men in thier mid 30's is that the older men, though they might have higher total testosterone, tend to also have higher estrogen levels and more of thier total testosterone is bound to SHBG, so its not bioavailable like the free testosterone is. That's my understanding, anyway. I'm not positive I'm correct.

[Michael112]

and the men in thier mid 30's is that the older men, though they might have higher total testosterone, tend to also have higher estrogen levels and more of thier total testosterone is bound to SHBG, so its not bioavailable like the free testosterone is. That's my understanding, anyway. I'm not positive I'm correct.

Thats true.

Heres a better graph.
http://www.natural-hrt.com/andropause04.html

[MetrologyHam]

Has anyone tried to go without HRT (Hormone Replacement Therapy)? Are there any advantages of not replacing Testerone?

There are a lot of possible effects to not replacing, are ther any positives or is it all bad?

There has been so much controversy lately about menopausal women and HRT, (it's made from pregnant horse urine). I haven't read much pro/con discussion about "womanpausal" men and HRT. ;)

[dadmo]

I don't usually check in with this section. I don't really know enough to help, but since you asked you may want to send opff a private message to a member who calls himself fish. He is currently, and has been for a while, going without any HRT.

[Margaret]

Gosh, Boyce only being at 270 is really low compared to the average. Is there anything other than medication we can try to get the number higher?

[adam101w]

I am 8 months out from chemo and just had mine checked. It is right around 250. Can anyone tell me the pros and cons? I have always been a small (muscle) guy, but I wonder if that was partly from before I was diagnosed.

Any advice please?

I am currently no taking anything.

[keefe]

Hey Margaret my testo levels are 262 ng/dl at the moment and i feel terrible very tired,poor memory,groogy head which usually turns into a headache seen my urologist today he agreed that my testo level was low but said it might be the affect of the chemo so i`ll get it retested in a month or two and if it hasn`t improved he said i can have HRT does your husband suffer from headaches aswell?
in answer to your question about raising levels exercise is supposed to help but it`s a bit of a chicken and egg thing as having low T makes you so tired you dont want to exercise

[Rover]

The whole reason I had the partial I/O was an attempt to avoid TRT and so I made a significantly patient effort to exhaust all resources before beginning replacement. It’s just not an easy decision.

Honestly can’t remember if there were headaches. Thankfully I don’t remember much, probably due to the fatigue. Symptoms vary by individual. For example, I had no problem with ED, it’s more common with low T as men age. My doc said this is testament to the virility of the species. Even the smallest amount of T could get the job done. My interest in getting the job done however, was less than zero. Exercise DID help as did all of the nutrition advise that would accompany a sound fitness plan. Eat smaller portions more often. Whole food / real food not out-of-a-box type food. There are a variety of supplements that claim to boost T and more recently lots of advertising for supplements claiming to enhance male performance. I’m not a believer. I take a multi vit. Nothing else. Well, energy and recovery type drinks for cycling, but no supplementation. I wanted to avoid TRT to remain ‘natural’ and to allow my body to continue providing all I need. My preference is to not treat my body as a chemistry experiment. Not at a pure or extreme level, no obsessive label reading or calorie counting, but on a level based on conscience moderation.

One of the most upsetting and ideas that entered my mind when diagnosed Tx2 stemmed from a new found love for cycling. I’ve always been active and athletic but this sort of got brushed aside when I fell in love with my wife and we began to have children. Tc1 was a wakeup call. I found cycling after reading Lance’s book. It was a great outlet, good for me, good for my marriage and now a great thing to share with my boys. Cycling brought the competitor in me back to life as I took laps on the trails trying to beat time day to day. I was making gains again and it felt so good. I was beating the cancer and finding myself again all at the same time. I was elated.

Then came TCx2. I had read enough the first go round and knew what it meant. Cancer is bad enough but the idea of taking T scared the hell out of me. In my head this meant I could still enjoy cycling as an activity but could no longer credit myself for the gains and accomplishments that feel so good. Did I pedal that hard or was it the T? After Tcx1 my buddies were politely jealous when they could no longer keep up. But now, after starting the T I can’t help but feel like a fraud. It’s a lose – lose situation. If I don’t go all out I get accused of sand bagging. If I kick but I’ve got my own demons. I’ve allowed my USA Cycling membership to expire. This means I won’t be able to enter the 12, 24 hour or many of the other races that are so much fun.

The goal of T replacement is to get me back to normal. No super-sizing required or desired. I’ve had one doc say who cares, I’m entitled after all I’ve been through. I disagree. She has no idea how wonderful my life is. She does know my wife or children. She had no idea how stupid it would be to risk what I have by experimenting with T.

I know this is a bit long but I want you to consider T replacement IS a big deal. There are no magic supplements. If T is required then do it. Though beforehand I suggest doing a sort of lifestyle audit. Are you getting enough rest, exercising and eating well. Are there stresses or habits in your life that need to be addressed. Numbers don’t lie but even if you need T, it’s not magic. If there are things in your life in need of improvement T won’t make them go away. If you do need T self improvement won’t make that need go away but taking this on as a whole life approach will enable you to move forward with replacement having confidence and a clear head.

Coming to the realization T would be needed sooner than later wasn’t easy. But I’m not exhausted any more. I don’t go to bed at 7pm and wake feeling as though I hadn’t slept a wink. Now, I LOVE my wife, as often as she let’s me :) I’m a good husband and father. Everything is great just the way it is. Hope it can be for you too.

-chris

[Scott]

But now, after starting the T I can’t help but feel like a fraud.Gear down, dude. :) You're the real thing, no fraud.

[Margaret]

Hey Margaret my testo levels are 262 ng/dl at the moment and i feel terrible very tired,poor memory,groogy head which usually turns into a headache seen my urologist today he agreed that my testo level was low but said it might be the affect of the chemo so i`ll get it retested in a month or two and if it hasn`t improved he said i can have HRT does your husband suffer from headaches aswell?
in answer to your question about raising levels exercise is supposed to help but it`s a bit of a chicken and egg thing as having low T makes you so tired you dont want to exercise

He is tired, has headaches, lower sex drive and can be grumpy for no reason. Not sure which are related to low T.

[keefe]

yea thats the problem seperating out the effects of the chemo from the effects of low T but if my T levels havent started to rise in a month think i`ll try a HRT trial see if it improves anything if it does then i`ll know it`s the low T causing me problems not the chemo might be the strain on the pituatry gland causing headaches? having to pump out higher levels of LH than normal
because the headaches have only recently started but my T level must have been low since the op

[Rover]

Thanks PaulI figure the only thing I'm cheating is death.I like it.

And thank you Scott.



Margaret and Keefe, I don't envy where you're at. The question of T is tough, the physical strain and the head game. Keefe, I think what you said is the the right aproach (if there is such a thing). Set a goal / have a plan of attack.

I'll try to dig up an article in the morning to share that has a list of symptoms. It beaks them down by percent of people that experience the symptoms and at what level. It was helpful for me score each on a 1-10 and share with my doc. It worked to put everything out in front of me at one time. Individual symptoms could sometimes be explained away by various things going on in life. It was seing them all at once the combination, severity and blood levels that made it a no brainer.

[Rover]

Below is a link to the article ‘Is it Low Testosterone or Something Else’ from the February 2007 Issue of The Clinical Advisor.

http://www.clinicaladvisor.com/content/Issue_Story.26.0.html?&no_cache=1&tx_cortlandtmagissue_pi1[pointer]=0&tx_cortlandtmagissue_pi1[mode]=1&tx_cortlandtmagissue_pi1[showUid]=1318

Ok so the link doesn’t seem to be working for me. Try
www.clinicaladvisor.com
, go to issue archive, February 2007, scroll down, it’s the last article listed under the heading for Clinical Feature.

-chris

[Totally]

I was diagnosed with low T back in July. Ok......it was 67.....for real. After checking with my cardiologist about side effects. I was given the gel. I applied it for about 5 days. Felt pretty good about getting that part of life on track. Over the weekend, I started getting real nauseated. Bad stomach aches. I attributed it to the gel. On top of starting that,I had been getting fluid in the right chest cavity which when getting filtered through the liver causes nausea. Eventually, I had nearly two liters drained from the right side.
I still have the nausea. I have stopped the gel completely and want to try the shot if my drug plan will pay for it. Does anyone know if drug plans typically pay for the shot. I don't post often, but what do you guys/gals think? My cardio is now sending me to a gastro guy. FOOTNOTE: I was radiated around my heart in 1972 to kill small remnants of seminoma in my chest cavity....that fried four arteries...hence the reference to the cardiologist(had aheart attack and triple by-pass)

[Margaret]

Yikes, this is scary. I can't help much because I am so new to the low T issue...but I hope your situation improves soon.

I really want Boyce to get his T back-up...I just feel his personality has changed a bit since it dropped and he is struggling with low energy, headaches and weigh gain. The weight gain looks fine to me...but I know he would be happier if he did not have to be bothered with it.

Our doctor said post chemo, the body will slow and use less calories. He told us that if Boyce eats something with 100 calories, it is now like he is eating 200. Not sure how that works or why it is related to chemo. Still learning about all this for sure.

[Rover]

I have stopped the gel completely and want to try the shot if my drug plan will pay for it. Does anyone know if drug plans typically pay for the shot. I don't post often, but what do you guys/gals think? The T should be charged the same as any other prescription drug. Depending on your plan it may appear to cost more. Example, my plan costs 30.00 for 2 months worth but the smallest vile size lasts about 6 months so the prescription cost about 90.00.

I don’t know about chest fluid vs gel. Gotta see a doc on that one.

-chris

[keefe]

hi guys seen my oncologist yesterday told him i felt bloody horrible any chance of going on a trial of HRT he said 9.1nmol might be normal level for me if only we had normal level from before the op hehehe ;) luckily for me i took nicks advice (thank you nick http://www.androids.org.uk/ ) and had been tested before the op 19nmol so it`s quite clear that my levels have dropped so he said ok we`ll try u on some testogel for a month see if your symptoms improve so i`ll let u guys know if there are any improvements or not, but if i hadn`t had my T levels from before the op i think the line would of been 9.1nmol that`s within normal levels there`s no problem.
so my advice would be to all newbies just diagnosed with TC get your T levels checked before the op if at all possible just in case your unlucky enough to have problems later on
peace n love

[Totally]

Thanks for the advice. Next week I'm looking into the "shot". My nausea is still with me. My liver reacts to too much fluid retention. Again I appreciate this site so much and the fact that we can come together and share resources. SUPER!!