Fertility results

[boyce]

Special Thanks to Joe for his "invaluable" help with this test result. Couldn't have done it without you Baldie!

Evidently a normal sperm sample has about 5 Million little guys in there. My sample had 1 little dead guy. I keep picturing a little Nemo kind of guy desperately trying to make sure that he is counted...because Every Sperm is Sacred (for you Monty Python fans)

Doc said the results were worse than a post-vasectomy patient...and that pregnancy chances were about 1 in a Billion. So please...don't look for me on the Maury Povich My Baby Daddy Special any time soon.

In addition my testosterone is low and dropping, so it looks like I'll be moving into the HRT thread any time now.

M is having a much harder time with it than me....and I do understand that....but I kind of figured this was the deal. Technically I am not sterile, as Little Nemo did make an appearance, but I will be reading up on HRT and possible side effects, etc.

Thanks to all of you...and especially Joe...the picture of you and the fish made this all possible! :D

[Karen]

I know M is having a difficult time with this and it's a hard thing to get your mind around when another little one was on your mind. This may be a really ignorant question since I have yet to delve much into the science of HRT (other than the obvious) but will viable sperm increase?

[Already Bald]

Special Thanks to Joe for his "invaluable" help with this test result. Couldn't have done it without you Baldie!

It was my pleasure. Or- your pleasure, or- oh nevermind. :eek:

Seriously though, sorry to hear about the results. We are in the same boat you guys are in- about the same ages, and I'm still retro.
My wife had 6 weeks of radiation focused on the area near her right ovary- and the docs gave us a fur-get-about-it chance of having another baby.
And like you, that was tougher on my wife.
Best,

[Margaret]

I know M is having a difficult time with this and it's a hard thing to get your mind around when another little one was on your mind. This may be a really ignorant question since I have yet to delve much into the science of HRT (other than the obvious) but will viable sperm increase?

They actually told us that the sperm, once you start using the testosterone gel, will decrease. The gel is not a good option for anyone wanting more children...but because the doctor said there is no hope for more kids..they will most likely move forward with the gel.

[Scott]

...the doctor said there is no hope for more kids...Although that's true now, how can they be certain it will remain true? According to the TCRC (http://tcrc.acor.org/fertility.html):The chemotherapy regimens used to kill testicular cancer does a very good job, and it is the primary reason why guys with advanced cancer can still hope to become a father. However, the chemotherapy does such a good job because it is very good at killing germ cells. Since sperm are generated by germ cells, it stands to reason that there aren't going to be a whole lot of sperm after undergoing chemo. And, in fact, chemotherapy usually results in azoospermia (the semen contains no sperm) during therapy.

In some cases, the sperm will never return. But in most cases sperm counts will increase in the 24 to 36 months following the conclusion of treatments, and in about 50% of men, the levels will eventually return to normal. However, even after 5 years the sperm counts of some men will remain below normal. Whether the sperm does or does not come back probably depends on the initial quality of the sperm before treatment. It also depends a lot on the amount of chemo received. The more chemo received, the less likely that fertility will ever return.

[Savin16]

Although that's true now, how can they be certain it will remain true? According to the TCRC (http://tcrc.acor.org/fertility.html):


See M, Scott's post proves that there is always hope.

[Margaret]

Not sure how to put this but Boyce says that I am doing myself more harm than good everytime I run to him with tiny shreads of hope. Maybe he is fed-up with the whole thing and feels like we got our 'bottom line' news yesterday and now we should move on. And I struggle to move on because it is hard for me to accept and I hear and read little things that do keep the hope alive in me.

He must have said 15 times on the phone this morning "we are not going to ever have a baby Margaret...do you understand??" to which I responded I do hear you BUT I just read this interesting article about....you know...what ever...if you crush green tea caplets and shove them up your nose, some doctors think that you can re-gain your sperm and clear up your congestion :p ...there is always something or someone who thinks they have the answers.

I don't mind sharing our differences on this topic here because I happen to think that having these issues in regards to survivorship is important. These issues are real and they are not just happening to Boyce and I. So opening up a tiny part of our personal/private world seems fitting. Although the constant flirting with Joe had me concerned for a few days :D .

So it leads me to the crossroads...when do you stop believing? When do you give up on your dream? How does all this work?? When do you say enough is enough?

We are a forum of dreamers. We dream for ourselves and dream for our family here. We are a family of hope. Boyce has moved on, I could hear it in his voice this morning as his frustration was building. He carries hope for other things now, but no longer for this. I was hoping that someone here could teach me how to move on and accept that this is not a hope/dream I need to carry with me anymore.

love.

[TCLEFT]

Bluebird,
I don't have an answer for you on this one, but I do wonder if somewhere there is a child without a Mother or Father that is hoping beyond all hope to have parents as first class as you and Boyce. You sign it at the end - love. You have plenty, and there are plenty that need it and are hoping for it. Just wondering out loud.
Much Love back @ Ya'll ;) ,
Mark

[Karen]

So it leads me to the crossroads...when do you stop believing? When do you give up on your dream? How does all this work?? When do you say enough is enough?




My answer to that is "never, ever", but you must be realisitc.

Part of acceptance, I think, it just letting things be. You are not using birth control. If a Margaret/Boyce baby happens, it happens. If a baby to love and care for is the goal, there are many means to achieve that end, if you both agree.

[Jay68442]

Margaret and Boyce I do understand where you both are coming from. As many may know from one of my other posts my wife and I have fertility issues. We have been trying for over 19 months now and still no good news. We have been to several top specialists in NY and still no reason why. My wife and I have passed every test with flying colors which makes things even more difficult to understand. If we had a problem we could say ok what do we do to fix it. Obviously we have some sort of issue but no one knows what it is.

Now the new problem created by the above problem. I just want to continue on in life and avoid as many bumps as I can. My wife seems to want to hit every bump head on. And the more time goes by the more she wants this baby. In many of our discussions she has admitted to me that the more she is told she can’t have it the more she wants it. I guess its human nature. I struggle every day with the challenge of keeping her happy, protecting what we already have and dealing with my own feelings. I would like to have another child but am quite happy with my life as it is. I could easily say I am done with children and move on. I understand life doesn’t always work out the way we plan and I accept that. My wife is not willing to accept anything for what it is and searches online day and night for answers. I don’t want her to give up hope but I wish she would be a little more flexible. My wife knows all that I have been through and feels we are truly blessed to have one child but still wants to continue on. Is she greedy? As she says “no”. in her words “Having children is not something that is supposed to be hard or cost money. The fact that we have to struggle to have a child is unfair.” So with a smile I say life is not fair, look at all that I have had to go through. And the cycle continues. No answer to the problem, no solution just frustration on both of our parts.

The only words of advice I can give to you Margaret and Boyce. No matter how bad it may seem, no matter how frustrated either of you may get with the other, always remember to say I love you and give each other a kiss. Always try to put the problems aside and enjoy each other’s company.

[Mrs Moggi]

Fertility issues are hard under any circumstances - just pop over to a fertility forum to see how much women will cling to every little bit of light, and try just about anything. When we stopped trying, there was a time that I cried every single day and it was just terrible. I don't think that there's anything anyone can say, just that we know how you feel, and for us, it did get better.

I have a friend who has more recently stopped trying. Both of us agree that there is a grieving process for the unconceived child(ren) and for both of us it affected us more than our husbands. For me, I very clearly, and unknowingly, went through most of the five stages of grief:

1) Denial - surely this isn't the end - what did I read about green tea capsules again?
2) Anger - for me this was with my husband for not joining me in my quest for green tea capsules (watch out Boyce! ;) ) as well as with all the women who just pop up pregnant on the first try
3) Bargaining - I skipped this one - I think I covered it while trying to conceive
4) Depression - this took a long time and for awhile I didn't make the link. Thank you Zoloft for getting me through this one
5) Acceptance

It took a very long time for me to make it through it but here I am on the other side. I'll be looking for you over here - I know you'll make it through this!

[NYC Russ]

You guys are certainly not alone. My wife and I were in full blown "lets have a baby mode" for well over a year before I was diagnosed, all with no results. Since we don't have any children to begin with, she's been hit on two fronts: me being sick and the possibility of never having a child of "her own". We've discussed it at length and while I'm "ok" with it if that's the result, she still wants to hold out hope no matter what the circumstances.

I'm not sure if it's because we don't have any kids (after being together 11 years now), her biological clock getting louder (she's going to be 34 this June), or the fact that most of her friends not only have babies, they're already working on #2 or #3 now. Maybe a combination of it all?

But there doesn't seem to be any easy answers here. For me, I look at it as a subset of the "life isn't fair" and if there's nothing I can do to change it, I'll move on. I might not be happy about it, but I'm not going to dwell and let it affect the rest of my life. She, on the other hand, sees it almost as a personal failure, which I just don't understand. (Maybe after the rest of my testosterone disappears, it'll become clear :p)

Either way, as long as you two work it out together, no matter what path you decide to take, it doesn't matter.

[Margaret]

Russ were you able to bank sperm?

[Jay68442]

(Maybe after the rest of my testosterone disappears, it'll become clear :p)

lol Maybe :D

[NYC Russ]

Russ were you able to bank sperm?
I did. 19 vials of future wiseasses. When I was done, I told her that if, for whatever reason, kids weren't in our cards, I'd buy her the beagle puppy she's been wanting for years, and she could diaper it and push it around in a stroller. (I thought it was funny at the time).

So when she was done trying to kick me in the nut, she made an appointment with a Repro Endocrinologist for more tests and to see what other options are available. I can only assume our divergent thought processes about this are the result of a difference in the way we're wired? All I know is she's got baby on the brain and I don't. I guess we'll see how (if?) things change in the future.

Lord knows I'm the last person to be giving marriage advice, but as long as you guys continue to talk about your wants and desires, even if you don't get any closer to reaching a mutual agreement, that's all that matters. It's the couples who keep it all in that have the real problems.

[petep]

isn't hope a funny thing...we are trained, especially as americans, to never give up hope...which is not a bad thing....but also told to be realistic, which can be a "hope" killer, yet can keep us on track.

I suppose the key is to keep hope in balance and perspective with everything you do have in your life. Human nature is to always seek what you do not have. I guess it is only destructive when too much energy is focused there on what you do not have, and not focused on the truly important things in your life you have, which are family and health of course.

________
funny side story....saw this canadian speaker...he claim to fame was he made the canadian olympic speed skiing team (when it was a trial sport) in 3 years...never raced in his life, just a recreational skier to olympic team in 3 years!)...

but the start of his story was he and his buddy watching tv and drinking beer decide wouldn't it be great to be in the olympics...so they decide the luge would be easiest to do, with little to no talent or experience...track down the canadian coach and see him in their heavy parkas by the track, tell them what they want to do...and he says "guys don't you think you should be a little more realistic" and turns away....fast forward three years, he says so there we are at the opening ceremony, the flags, the uniforms, the crowds, the screaming, fireworks, amazing...except I was in the bleachers, wacthing my buddy who actually made the luge team, in the parade....he heard what the coach said and went home, his buddy went off to train, destined to make the team.....he decided in the bleachers next time around he would be there.

______

so I guess again, nothing ever wrong with hope, but just start each day, live each day, and end each day being so thankful for everything you do have. that'll keep things in balance.


good topic for the forum....

pete

[Scott]

Well said, Pete. I think a key is to be flexible in our hopes, to allow ourselves to adjust them in response to our current reality -- but to keep striving for something and never give in to despair.

[Les' Mom]

Well said, Pete. I think a key is to be flexible in our hopes, to allow ourselves to adjust them in response to our current reality -- but to keep striving for something and never give in to despair.

This is a profound statement. It is my whole life right now.

Love,
pam

[boyce]

So it's semi-official now....Doc called and the lone hamster on the Wheel of Testosterone is running as fast as he can...but he's losing steam. It sounds like the poor little guy is eventually going to peter out (haha :rolleyes: ) and HRT is very likely....will meet on Tuesday with the doc to discuss the details.