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  • Supplements may be linked to TC?

    Found an interesting article(across multiple sites) that states taking bodybuilding supplements may increase risk of TC.

    Links to articles :
    http://www.medicaldaily.com/using-bo...-cancer-329294
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/t...ts-and-cancer/


    Alot of people are claiming it to be B.S. Not sure how true this is, i for myself however used to take alot of supplements(creatine,whey,fat loss etc) and cant deny but to believe this. My risks of having TC was almost to NONE. (NON white, No history of undescended tc's or smoking cigarattes etc etc.) So i am really inclined to believe supplements may have played some role.

    Thought of sharing with my fellas who are on same boat as a good knowledge for us and others.

  • #2
    Anything that can damage testicular tissue or modify the natural state or cell death and birth can cause cancer. Whether it causes it every time in everyone that is the question. i.e. it may have happened without product in question.

    Technically getting racked in the junk also increases risk of TC.

    John
    Diagnosed 4/17/08
    Right orchiectomy 4/18/08
    Pure choriocarcinoma; HCG 715,000; lungs, lymphnodes, liver, and random other places
    4X VIP chemo at IU with Dr. Einhorn 4/25/08-7/4/08
    HCG down to 7.2 10/28/08
    HCG back up to 198 12/29/08
    1 X PVB 1/2/09-1/6/09
    2 X HDC w/ stem cell rescue 2/4/09-3/14/09
    Follow-up with Dr. Einhorn 4/22/09
    HCG 1.2
    3 rounds, 21 days, twice daily, VP-16 50mg 4/24/09-7/10/09

    http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/johncovell

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for sharing links above. I also believe there is a connection. I hadn't have any predispositions fro TC and I got it. As I have stated here several times I am an active fitness fan and was using various supplements like Creatine, IsoProteins, BCAA amino acids, Tribulus Terrestris, etc. Also it was interesting that the first question I got from my onco upon my diagnosis was If I was using any supplements in the past...

      The question is, would you quit on using any nutrition supplements now being in remission to avoid recurrence ?

      @AZ09, what was your tumor composition ? Someone here conducted a quick research and it seems that people taking supplements tend to get non-seminoma TC rather than seminoma.
      Last edited by JohanusEU; 07-14-15, 05:10 AM.
      07 Aug 2014 - USG showed 5mm mass, bHCG: 6,45 AFP: 4,58
      08 Aug 2014 - left I/O surgery - NSGCT (70% Mature Teratoma, 30% Embryonal Carcinoma), pT1N0M0, no LVI invasion
      22 Aug 2014 - Markers after I/O: bHCG: 0,05 AFP: 3,40 - CT scan negative
      --- on surveillance ---

      20 Oct 2014 - bHCG: 30 AFP: 8
      04 Nov 2014 -bHCG: 270 (!) AFP: 26, CT shown 2,5 x 1,5 cm para-aortic lymph node
      --- recurrence confirmed ---
      12 Nov 2014 - MRI of brain - clear, re-staged to IIB,
      3x BEP started, changed to 4x BEP
      08 Jan 2015 3x BEP finished (bHCG: <0,1 AFP: 4,88), 4th cycle cancelled
      21 Jan 2015 CT scan clear - para-aortic lymph node shrunk to 0,6 x 0,4 cm

      --- on surveillance ---
      [2015 - all clear]
      [July 2016 bHCG:<0,1 AFP:3,24, MRI scan clear]

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by JohanusEU View Post
        Thanks for sharing links above. I also believe there is a connection. I hadn't have any predispositions fro TC and I got it. As I have stated here several times I am an active fitness fan and was using various supplements like Creatine, IsoProteins, BCAA amino acids, Tribulus Terrestris, etc. Also it was interesting that the first question I got from my onco upon my diagnosis was If I was using any supplements in the past...

        The question is, would you quit on using any nutrition supplements now being in remission to avoid recurrence ?

        @AZ09, what was your tumor composition ? Someone here conducted a quick research and it seems that people taking supplements tend to get non-seminoma TC rather than seminoma.
        I am in no way taking risk of using these supplements ever. IF @ MAX i would only stick to whey protein that too a very well known brand.

        and i have had 100% seminoma

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by JohanusEU View Post
          TI am an active fitness fan and was using various supplements like Creatine, IsoProteins, BCAA amino acids, Tribulus Terrestris, etc.
          So.... Was trying to engineer your body against its natural state worth it?
          6/5/15: bHCG 27,AFP 8.66, LDH 361, 5.6cm lymph node - Stage IIC
          6/16/15: Left I/O 85% EC, 10% chorio, 5% yolk sac opinion 2 (mayo) 90% EC, 10% yolk sac
          7/7/15: bHCG 56, AFP 42, LDH 322
          7/13/15 - 9/18/15: 4xEP
          10/1/15: bloodwork normal, ct scan shows 2 lymph nodes 1.0cm
          10/26/15: 2nd opinion on CT results - lymph nodes normal. Surveillance!
          4/6/16: 1.7cm X 1.5cm lymph node found with markers normal.
          4/20/16: RPLND @ IU - teratoma only!
          3/29/2018 all clears up to this date!

          Comment


          • #6
            I use creatine and protein and dont think there is any relation to be honest. Whey protein is literally a by product of milk or something and creatine is naturally occuring in the body and is even in red meat. A lot of MAY and COULD in that article.

            Comment


            • #7
              I will say that I used Creatine and Whey products in the past; as in 20 years prior to my TC.

              I cannot say that that is what caused my cancer though. I am sure it's far more complicated than that.

              However proteins are involved in cancer genesis and destruction.

              For example (as I recall from my research):

              Tumor Protein 53 (p53) acts as a tumor suppressor; which means that it regulates cell division by keeping cells from growing and dividing too fast or in an uncontrolled way. In the TC realm hereís how it relates to Cisplatin and tumor cell death (apoptosis): When Cisplatin (Platinum) damages the DNA strands via crosslinking the DNA chain, p53 then inspects the DNA chain to see if it can be fixed. If it can be fixed it then recruits other proteins to make the fix. If not then p53 marks the cell for apoptosis and the cancer cell then dies. p53 is produced by a Gene (TP53). Typically in TC this gene is not mutated; thus the p53 protein that it produces can do itís job effectively in marking the damaged cancer cell for programmed death. In a lot of other cancers this gene is mutatated and p53 is damaged or turned off and the cancer cells are resistant to the chemo. This is one thing that is theorized as to why some TC cells are Cisplatin resistantÖbecause p53 may be damaged or turned off. There are other proteins namely MDM2 and p21 at play here to.

              If you are scientifically inclined and interested then read up on cellular pathways and genetics related to gene signaling, etc. Itís the forefront of chemotherapy meds research at the cellular level.

              On another note: Some of us have read that exposures of males to Estrogens may be a cause of TC. That may very well be another valid concern. Look at the other cancers out there (like breast) and you see that hormones are at play.

              So what do I make of this (keep in mind that my deeper background and educational training was scientific research (math, physics and statistics):
              I donít think there is one single cause and of course every case is different. But I do think we are getting close and that damage to genes/proteins will very likely be the answer to most if not all of these cancers.

              These supplements we are talking about are very large proteins and come from milk of which the body that produced said milk was a body that has higher Estrogen contents than us males. It wouldnít be surprising (to me) that this could be part of this equation as TC is now on the rise throughout the world in the more developed nations that would have higher usage of these supplements.

              However some of us have likely seen the research that indicates that itís an evolutionary process at play here. As we left Africa and moved North/South our skins lightened. Keep in mind that the nations with the most TC are in the higher latitudes and are of fairer skin. The theory goes; that for us white boys, itís an evolutionary tradeoff that we had to evolve to protect our skin from the more direct, swift, damaging effects of UV radiation which damages our skin (and our genes). So our bodies adapted in such a way to protect us from this more immediate concern at the expense (trade off) of an increased risk of TC in later yearsÖ.past our child bearing years. So at the time of migration human life expectancy was short. We reproduced before the typical ages at which TC can happen (think Seminoma). At the time we migrated and evolved the risk of TC (in the eyes of biological trade-offs) was minimal because we were likely to die of some other natural causeÖ.but nowadays we live longer and see the results of TC. Anyways thatís just another research paper that came our recently.

              Now thereís more food for thought.

              -- Matt
              March 4th 2014: [AFP = 2.5; bHCG = 6; LDH = 618]
              March 13th: Left IO 100% Classic Seminoma
              6.3 x 5.1 x 3.8 cm, no invasion of anything
              LDH never fully normalized
              Stage: IS
              Watchful Waiting
              May 1st: promoted to Stage IIB with two PET active tumors in the para-aortic lymph nodes 2.5 & 2.4 cm
              May 12th: started 3xBEP
              Neupogen during Cycle 2 and 3
              July 8th: Last Bleo shot of Cycle 3 -- chemo completed !
              August 4th: Post Chemo CT/PET scan
              September 4th: Port removed
              July 10th 2018: 4 YEARS ALL CLEAR !

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by biwi View Post

                So.... Was trying to engineer your body against its natural state worth it?
                Well, what is natural state ? I am against any steroid or hormone based "supplements" and never used them. Mentioned supplements (proteins, BCAAs...) are considered as natural. If you hit the gym you'll find out that 99% of people are using these supplements. Of course you can quit on using them and eat 3-4kg of meat instead of it. Currently I am back in the gym, using only IsoPure proteins and liquid BCAAs no Creatine anymore.
                07 Aug 2014 - USG showed 5mm mass, bHCG: 6,45 AFP: 4,58
                08 Aug 2014 - left I/O surgery - NSGCT (70% Mature Teratoma, 30% Embryonal Carcinoma), pT1N0M0, no LVI invasion
                22 Aug 2014 - Markers after I/O: bHCG: 0,05 AFP: 3,40 - CT scan negative
                --- on surveillance ---

                20 Oct 2014 - bHCG: 30 AFP: 8
                04 Nov 2014 -bHCG: 270 (!) AFP: 26, CT shown 2,5 x 1,5 cm para-aortic lymph node
                --- recurrence confirmed ---
                12 Nov 2014 - MRI of brain - clear, re-staged to IIB,
                3x BEP started, changed to 4x BEP
                08 Jan 2015 3x BEP finished (bHCG: <0,1 AFP: 4,88), 4th cycle cancelled
                21 Jan 2015 CT scan clear - para-aortic lymph node shrunk to 0,6 x 0,4 cm

                --- on surveillance ---
                [2015 - all clear]
                [July 2016 bHCG:<0,1 AFP:3,24, MRI scan clear]

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by JohanusEU View Post

                  Well, what is natural state ? I am against any steroid or hormone based "supplements" and never used them. Mentioned supplements (proteins, BCAAs...) are considered as natural. If you hit the gym you'll find out that 99% of people are using these supplements. Of course you can quit on using them and eat 3-4kg of meat instead of it. Currently I am back in the gym, using only IsoPure proteins and liquid BCAAs no Creatine anymore.
                  Taking tons of supplements that bring you well over what your body normally requests and uses otherwise in order to satisfy a need to be "bigger, faster, stronger". I knew some people that were infatuated with working out at the gym, and it really didn't seem like a long term healthy lifestyle to me.

                  I try to exercise fairly regularly, and when I do lift weights I did drink whey protein shakes, but that and eating a good diet is about it. I don't feel the need to be a bodybuilder or a swimsuit model, I just want to feel healthy and not have a beer gut.
                  6/5/15: bHCG 27,AFP 8.66, LDH 361, 5.6cm lymph node - Stage IIC
                  6/16/15: Left I/O 85% EC, 10% chorio, 5% yolk sac opinion 2 (mayo) 90% EC, 10% yolk sac
                  7/7/15: bHCG 56, AFP 42, LDH 322
                  7/13/15 - 9/18/15: 4xEP
                  10/1/15: bloodwork normal, ct scan shows 2 lymph nodes 1.0cm
                  10/26/15: 2nd opinion on CT results - lymph nodes normal. Surveillance!
                  4/6/16: 1.7cm X 1.5cm lymph node found with markers normal.
                  4/20/16: RPLND @ IU - teratoma only!
                  3/29/2018 all clears up to this date!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jmb5026 View Post
                    I use creatine and protein and dont think there is any relation to be honest. Whey protein is literally a by product of milk or something and creatine is naturally occuring in the body and is even in red meat. A lot of MAY and COULD in that article.
                    For those people who think that whey and creatine are just NATURAL i think its time we actually educate ourselves again. All these so called natural whey and createane are only natural when taken from MILK and MEAT. those that come in boxes and tubs are more likely to be synthesized (?sp) which isnt really natural. Now people can say well whey is extracted from MILK, i for some reason believe NO its not its lab synthesized. Because if you look at the tubs of whey protein each scoop of tub gives 24G of massive amount of protein multiply that by 30 servings on average now thats about 700 g of protein in one tub . where as a glass of milk only has about 6g of whey in it. so you are telling me they have SOOO MUCH milk on their hands that they are able to extract tons and tons of whey protein without having shortage of MILK product? Kinda really hard to believe that unless you are living in heavens

                    back to original Post, i think what we are consuming as supplements are in UNNATURAL state thus harming us in some ways, just like taking Multivitamins different when you take from WHOLE FOOD versus synthetic chemicals.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JohanusEU View Post
                      Someone here conducted a quick research and it seems that people taking supplements tend to get non-seminoma TC rather than seminoma.
                      Bodybuilders also tend to be younger guys, my understanding is that younger guys also seem to be more prone to get non-seminomas, even non-bodybuilder, non supplement takers, so I don't find reason to think supplements are a cause & effect based on a quick, nonscientfic research.

                      Dave
                      Jan, 1975: Right I/O, followed by RPLND
                      Dec, 2009: Left I/O, followed by 3xBEP

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Davepet View Post
                        Bodybuilders also tend to be younger guys, my understanding is that younger guys also seem to be more prone to get non-seminomas, even non-bodybuilder, non supplement takers, so I don't find reason to think supplements are a cause & effect based on a quick, nonscientfic research.

                        Dave
                        But also look at this. More cancer cases in countries where there is use of these supplements + cases with younger guys who want to get bigger and stronger who use these supplements more often + rise in tc rates since these supplement industry on boom.

                        i think more things are pointing at direction that there COULD be alink between the supplements you consume and TC.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Dave i do think you are wrong, and your way of thinking is quite outdated..
                          this is just my opinion

                          I was a former athelte, bodybuilder, supplement consumer and overall quite extreme in my way of training and diet. I guess people are starting to wake up, as we now are 1-2% higher in IQ wich allows us to understand that the body simply does not accept chemicals and dirt to be a natural molecyle. When I had testicular cancer I went on a question to find the reason, and I believe I did.
                          - Before this study came out I always linked my TC to the over consumption of supplements I took. After finishing my rounds of chemo, I would walk into other rooms and talk to other TC patients.

                          A fast link was created! Many of the youngers guys developed different kinds of cancer then the elderly AND OFTEN OBESE/UNHEALTHY PEOPLE. Wich in my world triggers a connection between lifestyle and disease... Now well, we often see cycleist develop TC aswell? Yet another victim was found just 2-3days ago... It is not unheard of to use chemicals n drugs to ramp up performance in this sport.

                          - The dirt chemicals in ciggarets OFTEN cause cancers.
                          - The alcohol in beer and other beverages OFTEN cause liver cancers.
                          - The piss in certain tooth pastes OFTEN trigger mouth cancers.
                          - The magic in hair-color-products OFTEN triggerd cancer in the scalp.
                          I believe I dont have to continue? Chemicals and modern man-made molecyles often trigger a false response in cells wich makes unable to go into apoptosis wich in other words creates a disease.
                          Pick a field of 10000 natural horses eating clean grass... Pick a city of 10000 so called natural humans eating food from fabric-plastic-bottled-containers... Wich groups develops most cancer?
                          * Period.

                          Az09! The biggest contributer to cancer is Wealth, the richer the country, the bigger the waste of money on non-essical stuff such as tobacco,drugs,dirt,chemicals and overall unhealthy choices of living. What we are seeing today is that European/American countries develop higher indidences of testicular cancer wich is connected to higher gym rates aswell as consumption of these so called "health supplements" that are made in basements, ungrown and stired with dozens of chems...

                          Looks like people are walking up these days.. Sometimes 2steps back is actually 2steps forwards.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Profion View Post
                            Dave i do think you are wrong, and your way of thinking is quite outdated..
                            this is just my opinion

                            I was a former athelte, bodybuilder, supplement consumer and overall quite extreme in my way of training and diet. I guess people are starting to wake up, as we now are 1-2% higher in IQ wich allows us to understand that the body simply does not accept chemicals and dirt to be a natural molecyle. When I had testicular cancer I went on a question to find the reason, and I believe I did.
                            - Before this study came out I always linked my TC to the over consumption of supplements I took. After finishing my rounds of chemo, I would walk into other rooms and talk to other TC patients.

                            A fast link was created! Many of the youngers guys developed different kinds of cancer then the elderly AND OFTEN OBESE/UNHEALTHY PEOPLE. Wich in my world triggers a connection between lifestyle and disease... Now well, we often see cycleist develop TC aswell? Yet another victim was found just 2-3days ago... It is not unheard of to use chemicals n drugs to ramp up performance in this sport.

                            - The dirt chemicals in ciggarets OFTEN cause cancers.
                            - The alcohol in beer and other beverages OFTEN cause liver cancers.
                            - The piss in certain tooth pastes OFTEN trigger mouth cancers.
                            - The magic in hair-color-products OFTEN triggerd cancer in the scalp.
                            I believe I dont have to continue? Chemicals and modern man-made molecyles often trigger a false response in cells wich makes unable to go into apoptosis wich in other words creates a disease.
                            Pick a field of 10000 natural horses eating clean grass... Pick a city of 10000 so called natural humans eating food from fabric-plastic-bottled-containers... Wich groups develops most cancer?
                            * Period.

                            Az09! The biggest contributer to cancer is Wealth, the richer the country, the bigger the waste of money on non-essical stuff such as tobacco,drugs,dirt,chemicals and overall unhealthy choices of living. What we are seeing today is that European/American countries develop higher indidences of testicular cancer wich is connected to higher gym rates aswell as consumption of these so called "health supplements" that are made in basements, ungrown and stired with dozens of chems...

                            Looks like people are walking up these days.. Sometimes 2steps back is actually 2steps forwards.
                            exactly what my thoughts are.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Did anyone happen to take a supplement called oxyelite pro? It's the only supplement I have ever taken and it was in 2013, developed my tc in October 2014. The fda warns against this product as it has caused liver failure in several people.
                              Left R/O on 10-9-14. Ct scans all clear.
                              Pure Seminoma stage 1a. no vascular invasion.
                              surveillance started, with chest x-ray 12-3 , blood work 1-22-14.

                              Comment

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