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  • Transdermal gels Androgel Testim Tostran Testogel!

    In a few days time I will have my second orchidectomie due to TC.I'll be put on TRT for the rest of my life.It got me thinking about Androgel since in The Netherlands the brand "Androgel" seems to be the most common to use.I have some questions and am very interested what kind of gel you all use and have some questions about the daily application.

    Here are the questions that are on my mind..Which gel do you guys use? Did you try out more than 1 gel? Which gel do you prefer? Does the gel work for you?
    I am seriously thinking about applying the gel late in the evening before going to bed.I don't think that will caus problems (note: I realise the transfering problem --> long sleeve shirts).How long do you guys wait with showering/swimming after aplying the gel?Offtopic: when I adressed the issue a female endocrinologist I spoke said: "no problem, you can take a swim after an hour".Right.Needless to say I shake her hand and never came back..Come on, your a doctor! Shame on you..() I am not an expert but I know for a fact 1 hour is too short.
    10
    Not be able to take a shower for several hours
    20.00%
    2
    transfering the gel to my wife/gf/kids/others
    10.00%
    1
    having to think about appying the gel every day
    20.00%
    2
    none, I have delt with those issues and am happy:) No complaints here..
    50.00%
    5
    Last edited by eric33; 03-29-12, 01:17 PM. Reason: english spelling error:)

  • #2
    T treatment

    You might want to ask your doctor about a pellet that they implant under your skin every four months. The Mayo Clinic team recommended that to me as an option. However, I dont mind throwing a dart into my thigh every 10-14 days to keep my levels up.
    I like you suffered from losing both my boys. However, the light switch is there you have to reach out and turn it on. YOU do what is best for you.
    I became proactive in my search for both treatments and cures that comes with TC. I hate to say it but you are a number to the medical staff. If you make yourself a pest they "doctors and staff" will take notice of you and treat you better than waiting for someone else to call your number.

    I started on Andorgel and found it to be unsuitable for my lifestyle. " I live in Florida" I found that applying; it more stays on your hands than drys on your shoulders. I hate wearing shirts all the time and the wife not being able to snuggle with me blows. With the Gel a little bit of sweat and it starts to run, not to mention it does stay on your clothing so that is a concern for my wife coming in contact with it. All and all try the Gel and if doesnt work switch to another means of getting what you need. Patch, injection, pellet etc.... The pros of the gel is that it is painless.

    Cheer up my friend you are not alone

    Stormin Normin
    Last edited by eodtech2001; 03-21-12, 06:22 PM.
    Jan 2012- U/S mass in Left testicle
    Feb 2012- I/O performed to remove cancer
    Mar 1,2012- pathology pure seminoma
    Mar 7, 2012 PETSCAN stage IIa
    April 2012 Mayo clinic carbolite.
    May 2012 carbolite failed, started BEP x3
    August 7th 2012- BEP complete
    April 2013 CT/PET show relapse
    May 2013 RPLND
    Aug 2013 Relapse again Started VIeP x2
    Oct 2013 HDC AUTOLOGOUS
    Dec 2013 HDC completed CT/PETSCAN 1.1 cm x .8 cm right lower lung lobe
    Feb 2014 confirmed false positive all clear FINALLY !

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by eric33 View Post
      Wich gel do you guys use? Did you try out more than 1 gel? Which gel do you prefer? Does the gel work for you?
      I have used Testim for two years, never tried anything else. Seems to do the job for me.

      Originally posted by eric33 View Post
      *I am seriously thinking about applying the gel late in the evening before going to bed.I don't think that will caus problems (note: I realise the transfering problem --> long sleeve shirts).
      I am not overly concerned about the transferring thing, but the sooner contact occurs after application, the more testosterone is likely to be transferred. If you prefer to be naked while making love, that might be a concern.

      Originally posted by eric33 View Post
      Do more people apply the gel at night?
      *Is it likely the hormone-levels will rise so you feel more awake at night? I'd rather not obviously.
      I put it on after my daily shower, That is often early morning but sometimes mid afternoon. Seems to make no difference that I can see,

      Originally posted by eric33 View Post
      how long do you guys wait with showering/swimming after aplying the gel?
      *The advises I've read: 2 hours, between 2 and 3 hours, 5 hours, 6 hours, 8 hours..
      Testim says 2 hours is OK, Androgel says something like 5 hours (I think) follow the drug makers timetable & you should be fine.

      Originally posted by eric33 View Post
      Offtopic: when I adressed the issue a female endocrinologist I spoke said: "no problem, you can take a swim after an hour".Right.Needless to say I shake her hand and never came back..Come on, your a doctor! Shame on you..() I am not an expert but I know for a fact 1 hour is too short.
      An hour might be fine. almost every directive given has a "safety factor" built in to insure you are happy with the product. I believe most of the testosterone you are able to absorb is absorbed rather quickly & the rest will never do you any good. Two years of differing days of showering/swimming & other schedules seems to to bear that out as far as I am concerned. You will have to see for yourself how it works for you, but chances are you are worried about nothing. It might take a few tweaks to get it all sorted out, but it will be fine in the long run. All of us with TC2 manage to get through it, you will be no different.
      Jan, 1975: Right I/O, followed by RPLND
      Dec, 2009: Left I/O, followed by 3xBEP

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by eric33 View Post
        (...)*I am seriously thinking about applying the gel late in the evening before going to bed.I don't think that will caus problems (note: I realise the transfering problem --> long sleeve shirts).
        Just to reiterate what has already been said, you do risk exposing your girlfriend should you apply the gel just before going to bed, particularly if their is likely to be skin-on-skin contact. Furthermore, the idea behind applying first thing in the morning is to better mimic natural hormone levels in men with intact testes. Levels tend to be elevated in the morning with a gradual decline over the course of the day. Finally, for most men, applying in the morning works out fine because they will spend most of the working hours at work, not engaged in any activities that might (a) expose someone else to their skin and (b) not likely to get wet.

        Originally posted by eric33 View Post
        *The advises I've read: 2 hours, between 2 and 3 hours, 5 hours, 6 hours, 8 hours..
        The literature for AndroGel/TestoGel advises waiting five hours before getting wet or engaging in activities that are likely to cause you to perspire heavily. I get up at 5:30 every morning and apply AndroGel right away such that, by mid-morning, I'm not likely to have a problem. That said, when I've gone out for a morning run, I've usually waited until after the run and showering before applying the gel. It sometimes becomes a scheduling conundrum but one key point to keep in mind is that the guidelines are for typical daily application. If you find yourself delaying an application or perhaps getting wet sooner than those guidelines would indicate, it's not a serious problem. After all, AndroGel is rated to have at least a 24 hour effect such that, even if you delay the following dosage by a few hours or get wet a little sooner than you should, you won't really experience much of an impact, so long as you don't make a habit of doing so. As long as you typically apply the gel at the same time, only rarely deviating from the schedule, you should be fine.

        Alex
        TC1: 1996, right orchiectomy, seminoma stage I 3.5 cm mass, radiation therapy (peri-aortic & pelvic 27.3 Gy)
        TC2: 2008, left orchiectomy, seminoma stage IA 5 cm mass, left & right prostheses, AndroGel TRT, surveillance at MSKCC

        Comment


        • #5
          Can't add much more than what has already been said by Dave & Alex.

          Originally posted by eric33 View Post
          Does the gel work for you?
          Yes it does. I have had no (obvious) problems since starting with Testogel 2+ years ago.

          Originally posted by eric33 View Post
          apply the gel at night?
          No, mine is (usually) part of my morning routine.

          Originally posted by eric33 View Post
          shower/swimming?
          Well putting it on in the morning _after_ my shower makes this usually a non issue - my next shower would be some 24 hours later.

          As for swimming: twice a week I swim late in the evening (some 12 hours) after my gel application. Then occasionally I swim at lunch time (some 4 hours) after application. In both cases I have never noticed any differences.

          My challenge comes during family holidays, or weekends when the kids want to go swimming with me. On holiday I tend to either: put the gel on early and stay clear of water until 4-5 hours afterwards, or I go swimming with them and then put the gel on.

          As Alex says, deviating from your application schedule shouldn't affect you too much (and it hasn't me), however if I know I am going to have a sustained period of change (for example 1 - 2 weeks on holiday) then I'll try and adjust to a new time, and stick to that. Again, so far, I haven't noticed any obvious issues.

          Feb 2009: RHS (Seminoma) & RT
          Mar 2010: LHS (Embryonal Carcinoma)
          Sep 2010: Relapse & 3 x BEP
          Mar 2014: Four years a eunuch!
          http://doublezeroami.blogspot.com

          Comment


          • #6
            I have tried out all the gels, and found them all unsatisfying after a year or using them. Too much skin irritation (particularly during autumn and winter, when the air humidity is much lower than in spring and summer) and hassle to put them on every morning. The actual testosterone values were too low also.

            Since almost a year, I have been on Nebido now, and couldn't recommend it more, although it is expensive at € 120 or so per shot (every 10-14 weeks). Unlike Sustanon, gels and the tablets, it is not paid for by the Dutch insurance companies (currently it is not in the 'GVS' - Geneesmiddelen Vergoedingssysteem), but I happily pay the price.

            I though I'd chime in because in my opinion gels are needlessly complicating TRT therapy in many cases. Oh and the injection for Nebido is only a small sting and some muscle ache for a few days, nothing to worry about. The pellets are not available in Europe, as far as I know, nor is Axiron (yet).

            If you are looking for a Endocrinologist, you may want to enquire if you can get one at VUmc, as they also do transgender operations. Most Endocrinologists in the Netherlands know a lot about diabetes and tyrhoid problems, but little about testosterone. That said, after initial treatment at UMCG all my monitoring is now done by my GP and together with my GP I order periodic blood tests and that works out just fine for me. Nebido is supported by excellent and easy to understand guides for patients and professionals alike.

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks for all the info.I guess I'll have to find out myself what TRT works best for me.So many people so many different experiences..No body is the same

              Drait, I'll PM you in Dutch, perhaps I can ask you some questions.I noticed there's a lot more information on the forum about Sustanon and gels..
              Last edited by eric33; 03-29-12, 01:14 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                I just switched to Axiron 2 months ago. It seems to work okay. I had been on Androgel for some time. Prior to that it was Cyproniate. I'll know if Axiron is working when see my endo next month. One thing about it, Axiron is easier to apply and it doesnt dry out my hands like Androgel does.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Axiron here as well. I have been on it for about 8 months. I like it a lot better than Testim. Less likely to expose my family to it, and I don't have the tell-tale "cologne" scent.

                  I also find that it dries much more quickly. With Testim I had to wait a good 25 minutes and was still sticky when I put a shirt on. Axiron doesn't stay tacky,a nd it dries in about 5 to 10 minutes.

                  Free T numbers are in great range, too.
                  Right I/O in early childhood
                  TRT due to low functionality, since 2004 (Axiron)

                  Back pain CT shows 7.5 x 8 x 11 cm periaortic node, Pure Seminoma (Stage III), Summer 2010
                  Left I/O, September 14, 2010
                  4xBEP, September 20 - December 6, 2010

                  All clear through 3-12-12
                  Next: 6-15-12

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The Axiron seems like a better delivery system to me. However I'm sure it's just started out with a brand new patent & Androgel should go generic in 2021 at the latest, possibly as soon as 2015. I'm currently on Testim & paying US $290/ month until I meet my insurance maximum out of pocket for the year. Without insurance, probably even more.

                    Right now, the cost is a much bigger factor for me than the convenience, so I'm hoping for a generic gel sooner rather than later...
                    Jan, 1975: Right I/O, followed by RPLND
                    Dec, 2009: Left I/O, followed by 3xBEP

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I feel the same way, Dave, and am anxious for a generic version of AndroGel to become available some day. The high cost of this drug, as I'm on a high-deductible plan and have a high co-pay, is tough to swallow.
                      TC1: 1996, right orchiectomy, seminoma stage I 3.5 cm mass, radiation therapy (peri-aortic & pelvic 27.3 Gy)
                      TC2: 2008, left orchiectomy, seminoma stage IA 5 cm mass, left & right prostheses, AndroGel TRT, surveillance at MSKCC

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Dave by chance are you a veteren? The reason I ask is the VA has agreed to pick up the cost of my TRT. Which is a good thing because it reduces my out of pocket expense using my private insurance.
                        Jan 2012- U/S mass in Left testicle
                        Feb 2012- I/O performed to remove cancer
                        Mar 1,2012- pathology pure seminoma
                        Mar 7, 2012 PETSCAN stage IIa
                        April 2012 Mayo clinic carbolite.
                        May 2012 carbolite failed, started BEP x3
                        August 7th 2012- BEP complete
                        April 2013 CT/PET show relapse
                        May 2013 RPLND
                        Aug 2013 Relapse again Started VIeP x2
                        Oct 2013 HDC AUTOLOGOUS
                        Dec 2013 HDC completed CT/PETSCAN 1.1 cm x .8 cm right lower lung lobe
                        Feb 2014 confirmed false positive all clear FINALLY !

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Not to get political on this great resource and website but medication costs and insurance are a big issue for all people. Those of us who will need a lifetime of medication just to stay in the normal range for T-levels are affected to a larger degree. I am grateful for the pharmaceutical companies that develop the drugs yet at the same time, get mad about the costs. Here in America, there seems to be more emphasis on the unborn and less on taking care of the living. I dont wish to sound uncaring about the unborn. I just think it is rather hypocritical that health care is a privelege and as time goes on, only the priveleged will have health care. Sorry for my vent. I do sympathize with those that struggle with paying for treatment.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by eodtech2001 View Post
                            Dave by chance are you a veteren? The reason I ask is the VA has agreed to pick up the cost of my TRT. Which is a good thing because it reduces my out of pocket expense using my private insurance.
                            No, I am not a vet, glad to hear the VA is helping vets who need TRT, though.
                            Jan, 1975: Right I/O, followed by RPLND
                            Dec, 2009: Left I/O, followed by 3xBEP

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              For the guys paying a lot for Androgel/Testim...do you have access to a compounding pharmacy? I pay $30/mo for a 10% gel.

                              Comment

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