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Is this a normal T level?

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  • Is this a normal T level?

    So, some of you may remember that in 2011, I ended up having a testicular ultrasound for an injury sustained in batting practice. It showed a highly suspicious lesion on my non-injured testicle which set off a series of doctor visits and ultimately having an orchiectomy, only to find out a week later that I didn't have cancer.

    Fast forward to 2017 now. Lately I have been gaining weight, though that could easily be due to my diet and lack of regular exercise. I am very irritable. I have also noticed a lack of libido and ability to get an erection right away. Let's put it this way, if my wife said let's go upstairs and have a roll in the hay, I would come to attention quickly, but if I were to just sit and think about a hot chick or having sex with my wife, then it never really perks up on its own without a little manual stimulation. So I have gained some weight, but I have probably fluctuated between 220-240 lbs for the last 10 years. I am 6'3" tall. So while overweight, it's not like I am morbidly obese or something. I am 45 years old.

    So I finally went to the doctor because I have just been so blah lately. And the sex drive, and the weight, and I have been really fatigued and I am getting like 5 hours of sleep per night. I asked her to do a testosterone test without specifically mentioning the orchiectomy, which she should know about. Got the results today and it said 332. That seems on the low end. I've read 300-1000 is normal. The range on the doctor's results said 175-781 was normal! That is WAY lower than anything I've seen. I saw one study that put the mean at around 600 with 348 being at the 2.5th percentile. So I have no idea if I am normal or low or what???
    5/23/2011 : Nailed in the nuts with a baseball.
    5/23/2011 : ER ultrasound found suspicious lesions on non-injured testicle
    5/24/2011 : Urologist confirms
    6/2/2011 : second opinion at Univ of Chicago
    6/17/2011 : Left orchiectomy, also found a hernia
    6/23/2011 : IT WAS NOTHING! A POOL OF BLOOD THE DOC SAID!

  • #2
    I would say that is on the low side of normal, especially at your age, coupled with your symptoms & I would think TRT might be worth a try.

    Also: I've never seen any range that called 175 normal.

    Dave
    Jan, 1975: Right I/O, followed by RPLND
    Dec, 2009: Left I/O, followed by 3xBEP

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Davepet View Post

      Also: I've never seen any range that called 175 normal.

      Dave
      I'm sure it's more than just the one, but Duke med uses 175-781ng/dl
      *** Serum Markers Never High***
      July 14, 2017: Lump on right testicle
      July 20: US show 3 lesions "highly suspicious for testicular cancer"
      July 26: Pelvic CT shows 1 lymph node @ 2cm, 1 @ 1.4cm
      July 30: Right Radical Orchiectomy
      Aug 2: Pathology report "100% Embryonal Carcinoma"
      Aug 20: Oncologist stages 2A, wants RPLND primary treatment, 2nd CT
      Sept 13: 2nd CT shows nodes now 2.4cm and 1.8cm
      Sept 15: Now Stage 2B, New treatment 3x BEP
      Oct. 2: Begin 3x BEP
      Nov. 28: Finish 3x BEP 2018
      Jan. 04: First all clear CT. Scattered Ground Glass Opacity in lungs common to drug toxicity
      Mar.06: Blood tests negative. STILL ALL CLEAR

      Comment


      • #4
        Also remember that range of normal is for men overall. So 1 persons normal could be 100s while another mans normal could be in the 700 range. I know me personally when i have beem tested through out a cycle. Anyrhing under 200 for me and i was emotional as hell and pissed at the world, my high side test cycle was right at 850 and i would be short tempered. So for me my normal is between 650 and 750. I am even tempered more so and just feel better and have a better mood.
        But it also depends on your cycle for trt. dave i think does every 2 weeks where i do every 10 days. Some guys on here have the long release aveed which is good for 10 weeks. The trick is to find a doctor who trully understands trt and not just go by what guidelines say. If you havent seeked out a specialty doctor i would look at endo doctors. That is what there bread and butter is and usually understand the importance of getting your levels right for you.
        Jan 2012- U/S mass in Left testicle
        Feb 2012- I/O performed to remove cancer
        Mar 1,2012- pathology pure seminoma
        Mar 7, 2012 PET SCAN stage IIa
        April 2012 Mayo clinic carbolite.
        May 2012 carbolite failed, started BEP x3
        August 7th 2012- BEP complete
        April 2013 CT/PET show relapse
        May 2013 RPLND
        Aug 2013 Relapse again Started VIeP x2
        Oct 2013 HDC AUTOLOGOUS
        Dec 2013 HDC completed CT/PETSCAN 1.1 cm x .8 cm right lower lung lobe
        Feb 2014 confirmed false positive all clear FINALLY !
        Jan 2015 1 year cancer free Pet/CT scan
        Jan 2016 2 years cancer free "Pet/CT scan
        Jan 2017 3 years cancer free "Pet/CT scan
        Jab 2018 4 years cancer free "Pet/CT scan, labs, xrays

        Comment


        • #5
          Well, just to keep things straight, I inject 1 ml (200mg/ml) of generic testosterone cypionate every three weeks. Libido drops a bit during week 3 but otherwise no problems.

          Also, even an endo may not get it right, most treat mostly diabetics, not low testosterone.The one I went to was pretty useless. I get the feeling that most docs prefer to see you on the low side of normal, & are fearful of prescribing a controlled substance.

          Dave
          Jan, 1975: Right I/O, followed by RPLND
          Dec, 2009: Left I/O, followed by 3xBEP

          Comment


          • #6
            These symptoms sound like my experience with low-T from orchiectomy and chemo. It's complicated because many of the symptoms could be caused by lifestyle. One symptom that's kind of unique, in my opinion, of low T, is night sweats. When I had very low T (~200) I had to change my t-shirt multiple times a night after it was drenched.

            The wide range your doctor quotes is probably a laboratory histogram of all men. The "normal" T-level for you may very well be higher than the value you got.

            Also:
            1. There is a time-of-day dependence. Early morning, 9AM is best. When did you get tested?
            2. T-level reduces as we age.
            3. I have my T-level measured every 4 months (part of my surveillance for cancer) and it fluctuates by 25-50 points depending on my recent past (if I was sick, sleeping etc)

            My T-level where I was symptomatic was 230-280. Generally <300 AND symptoms is treated as hypogonadism with either TRT or clomiphene. At least one study I'm aware of says <400. There are well-known downsides of having chronic low-T (hypogonadism) such as worse cardiovascular health. Of course, there are down-sides to TRT as well: blood clotting risks, male infertility. Clomiphene is an alternative to TRT that works by stimulating the control loop rather than replacing testosterone. Clomiphene is a pill while TRT is typically an injection or topical gel.

            I had my best luck with a fertility urologist. All other docs I spoke with (oncologists, primary care) don't seem to care too much about my symptoms.

            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3770846/
            Age 31 - Portland, OR
            01NOV16- Pain in right testicle, palpable mass
            13NOV16- R I/O. Markers normal
            27NOV16- Stage Ia non-seminoma, 1.3cm, 100% EC, no LVI
            06DEC16 - CT scan clear
            09DEC16 - Started 1xBEP. Neutropenic at day 15; Worst part for me was bleo (allergic).
            03JAN17- Ended 1xBEP; start surveillance
            18MAR17-2nd pathology report shows 90% EC , 10% seminoma

            Comment


            • #7
              I stand corrected every 3 weeks for Dave. The point i was making was as Dave put it shop around if you have too.
              In Daves case and my case we dont produce testosterone anymore cause we lost both. So even as we might be older we dont have to argue a stronger case for TRT as it should be obvious to any Doctor we simply need it cause we dont produce it.
              Jan 2012- U/S mass in Left testicle
              Feb 2012- I/O performed to remove cancer
              Mar 1,2012- pathology pure seminoma
              Mar 7, 2012 PET SCAN stage IIa
              April 2012 Mayo clinic carbolite.
              May 2012 carbolite failed, started BEP x3
              August 7th 2012- BEP complete
              April 2013 CT/PET show relapse
              May 2013 RPLND
              Aug 2013 Relapse again Started VIeP x2
              Oct 2013 HDC AUTOLOGOUS
              Dec 2013 HDC completed CT/PETSCAN 1.1 cm x .8 cm right lower lung lobe
              Feb 2014 confirmed false positive all clear FINALLY !
              Jan 2015 1 year cancer free Pet/CT scan
              Jan 2016 2 years cancer free "Pet/CT scan
              Jan 2017 3 years cancer free "Pet/CT scan
              Jab 2018 4 years cancer free "Pet/CT scan, labs, xrays

              Comment


              • #8
                Some useful infor for you

                https://www.menshormonalhealth.com/n...ne-levels.html
                >>>>>>>>>
                TC1: May 2001 / Right orchiectomy / seminoma stage 1 / Radiation
                TC2: July 2008 / Left orchiectomy / seminoma stage 1 / X2 Prostheses / Reandron (long term Testosterone injections)

                Comment

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