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Moving straight from BEP to High dose TI-CE

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  • #16
    Thanks Tracy,

    We're going the sloan Kettering route so should be 3 rounds. Even doing 3 rounds there is still a fair bit less etoposide in the sloan Kettering dosage (and no 3 months oral follow up with that). I've got a call with them this week to discuss but I guess they back their studies versus the IU studies. If my platelets recover in time they will perform it in 21 day cycles so I guess they get the intensity there.
    05/15 diagnosed stage III C choriocarcinoma - lost righty
    05/16 started BEP round 1 - HCG 360000
    06/14 started BEP round 2 - HCG 7438
    06/28 stem cells harvested
    07/16 BEP round 3 - HCG 6486
    07/30 HCG 1847
    08/13 - HGC 3437 - moved to high dose chemo. round 1 TI
    08/22 - HGC 4797
    08/27 - HCG 2251 - round 2 TI
    09/06 HCG 857
    09/10 HCG 279 - round 1 high dose CE

    Comment


    • #17
      I am looking to see any head to head comparisons (reported in the scientific literature) of the two regimens and will forward anything I find.
      Tracy
      Cancer pharmacologist, caregiver blog here

      Wife to Kel, dx 12/30/11 Stage IIIc (poor) embyronal, AFP 13700, 10x11 cm retroperitoneal mass, 1 cm^2 lung met
      Left I/O 12/31/10.
      4xBEP 1-4/11, AFP=22, 5*7 RP mass, tx failed
      1.5 x VeIP 5-6/11; tx failed, AFP/b-hCG rising
      Salvage RPLND @Indy 6/29/11, metastatic mixed germ cell tumor with yolk sac, seminoma and teratoma
      Remission! AFP steady since 9/2011; 2+ years ALL CLEAR

      Comment


      • #18
        A couple of articles to share (all should have access, let me know if you don't):

        Review of second line options

        IU HDC

        MSKCC HDC
        Tracy
        Cancer pharmacologist, caregiver blog here

        Wife to Kel, dx 12/30/11 Stage IIIc (poor) embyronal, AFP 13700, 10x11 cm retroperitoneal mass, 1 cm^2 lung met
        Left I/O 12/31/10.
        4xBEP 1-4/11, AFP=22, 5*7 RP mass, tx failed
        1.5 x VeIP 5-6/11; tx failed, AFP/b-hCG rising
        Salvage RPLND @Indy 6/29/11, metastatic mixed germ cell tumor with yolk sac, seminoma and teratoma
        Remission! AFP steady since 9/2011; 2+ years ALL CLEAR

        Comment


        • #19
          Thanks for the articles - seems there doesn't appear to be much difference in the results of either method (I'm guessing just due to the low number of patients). A family friend trained at sloan which is why initially we went that route so I guess we'll continue with the sloan method for now. I see that if it doesn't work out there isn't any statistical difference to then trying the other method but hopefully we'll not get to that.

          I'm due to start Tuesday with the CE portion so I'll let people know if the supplements I'm taking help with the platelets etc.

          Thanks again - it's really good to be able to access all the information here
          05/15 diagnosed stage III C choriocarcinoma - lost righty
          05/16 started BEP round 1 - HCG 360000
          06/14 started BEP round 2 - HCG 7438
          06/28 stem cells harvested
          07/16 BEP round 3 - HCG 6486
          07/30 HCG 1847
          08/13 - HGC 3437 - moved to high dose chemo. round 1 TI
          08/22 - HGC 4797
          08/27 - HCG 2251 - round 2 TI
          09/06 HCG 857
          09/10 HCG 279 - round 1 high dose CE

          Comment


          • #20
            Just a quick update. I had my second round of TI last week so just wanted to report on side effects. I had it done as an inpatient (3 nights stay) and had very little in the way of symptoms during the 3 days (If I'd known in advance I'd have done it outpatient as I prefer to sleep in my bed without nurses who think 5am is a great time to start the day checking your blood pressure...)
            The day after I was released I had a pretty rough day with diarrhea and general tiredness.
            The day after I suddenly felt ok again so was pretty happy.
            The following week I've had odd symptoms that come and go, muscle spams, lack of appetite, sore bones (my hips were killing me for some odd reason) and aching joints that left me thinking I must be 70.
            This is also the first week since I started treatment that I felt it really hard to get any work done (I work online).

            All in all not a fun week but everyday I could go for an hours walk and have part of the day feeling human. For anyone entering this part of treatment it's something you'll get through pretty ok all in all.

            On a happy note my HCG dropped to 857 today so I'm very pleased that things seem to be moving in the right direction.

            I start the CE portion of the high dose on Tuesday so will let people know how that goes. Hopefully E numbers keep moving in the right direction.
            05/15 diagnosed stage III C choriocarcinoma - lost righty
            05/16 started BEP round 1 - HCG 360000
            06/14 started BEP round 2 - HCG 7438
            06/28 stem cells harvested
            07/16 BEP round 3 - HCG 6486
            07/30 HCG 1847
            08/13 - HGC 3437 - moved to high dose chemo. round 1 TI
            08/22 - HGC 4797
            08/27 - HCG 2251 - round 2 TI
            09/06 HCG 857
            09/10 HCG 279 - round 1 high dose CE

            Comment


            • #21
              High dose CE day 1

              So on a good note my HCG markers are down to 279 which is great.

              On a bad note I got a letter from my insurance company pulling financial support for my treatment as the doctor has not answered any of their queries. Seems he doesn't like paperwork. So I had to waste the weekend calling the insurer, finding out what they wanted and making sure they got it. I think of this as the amazing thailand experience.

              On Tuesday I got my kidney function checked and agreed with the doctor we're to follow the sloan protocol exactly. I now check all dosages prior to be given to me and for some reaso the doctor decided to not use the right dose (he wanted to go for 1000mg instead of the 1400mg the calculator says to use). No reason just he thinks he's smarter than the rest of th world. Soon as I get out from this round I'll swap hospitals as the additional stress of trying to manage the hospital is becoming too much.

              By the way if anyone needs a dosage calculator here is a very handy one
              http://reference.medscape.com/calcul...c-dose-calvert

              In the end I got carbo 1400mg over 1 hour and eto of 800mg over 3 hours.

              I imagine in america you don't need to keep an eye on things as much but for those of us in the lesser developed part of the world I'd use it everytime.

              I got a decent nights sleep (as you get when nurses come in for blood pressure every couple of hours) and no side effects so far apart from a little shakiness so here's hoping that continues. I drank 6 liters of water yesterday so hopefully flushing my kidneys that hard is helping (at least its keeping my fitness up from all the walks to the bathroom...)
              05/15 diagnosed stage III C choriocarcinoma - lost righty
              05/16 started BEP round 1 - HCG 360000
              06/14 started BEP round 2 - HCG 7438
              06/28 stem cells harvested
              07/16 BEP round 3 - HCG 6486
              07/30 HCG 1847
              08/13 - HGC 3437 - moved to high dose chemo. round 1 TI
              08/22 - HGC 4797
              08/27 - HCG 2251 - round 2 TI
              09/06 HCG 857
              09/10 HCG 279 - round 1 high dose CE

              Comment


              • #22
                High dose CE day 2

                Day 2 passed smoothly enough - still no side effects to note.
                I received 1500mg of carboplatin over an hour and 800mg of Etoposide over 4 hours (basically following the protocol).
                I drank 7 liters of water and received a further 6 via drips so I'm guessing I'm flushing the drugs out pretty fast.
                I'm washing my mouth out with apple cider vinegar every 2 hours which has totally stopped any mouth ulcers so far (I can feel it hurting random parts of my mouth but its working so far so I'd recommend it)

                One area of concern is the hygiene followed in the hospital sterile room. My room is pressurized and had double doors. The first hall way area is where people are supposed to change shoes and put on a mask prior to entry. Took me 2 days to train the nurses to stop then rolling in with trolleys from the outside.

                Unfortunately the bathroom is connected to the that hallway so I need to walk my drip through the dirty area to go to the bathroom. There are no antiseptics floor mats so I must be tracking lots of dirt into the room. I've asked my girlfriend to go find one but it would make the so called sterile room a bit of a joke.

                Last day of meds today and then 2 days before stem cell infusion. If anyone has any tips for that let me know.

                Pte
                05/15 diagnosed stage III C choriocarcinoma - lost righty
                05/16 started BEP round 1 - HCG 360000
                06/14 started BEP round 2 - HCG 7438
                06/28 stem cells harvested
                07/16 BEP round 3 - HCG 6486
                07/30 HCG 1847
                08/13 - HGC 3437 - moved to high dose chemo. round 1 TI
                08/22 - HGC 4797
                08/27 - HCG 2251 - round 2 TI
                09/06 HCG 857
                09/10 HCG 279 - round 1 high dose CE

                Comment


                • #23
                  High dose CE day 3

                  Quick note on this one. Kidneys have been working overdrive so I get my highest dosage today (1750mg). Found it harder to eat today but managed to swallow down some pasta.
                  05/15 diagnosed stage III C choriocarcinoma - lost righty
                  05/16 started BEP round 1 - HCG 360000
                  06/14 started BEP round 2 - HCG 7438
                  06/28 stem cells harvested
                  07/16 BEP round 3 - HCG 6486
                  07/30 HCG 1847
                  08/13 - HGC 3437 - moved to high dose chemo. round 1 TI
                  08/22 - HGC 4797
                  08/27 - HCG 2251 - round 2 TI
                  09/06 HCG 857
                  09/10 HCG 279 - round 1 high dose CE

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Day 4 and 5 (stem cells back in)

                    So day 4 was spent primarily in a sleepy haze. First half of day 5 was not much better. Got the stem cells back in and felt better that night (as they also contain platelets etc).

                    By the evening of day 5 I was able to eat a chicken sandwich and some egg tarts (fat, sugar and eggs in a healthy combination).

                    Bloods were coming back looking ok, platelets at 107 but oxygen at 98%

                    Started the growth hormones today so hopefully they'll give a boost.

                    I've managed to avoid any mouth ulcers so far by washing my mouth every couple of hours with apple cider vinegar - it stings but seems to work for me.
                    05/15 diagnosed stage III C choriocarcinoma - lost righty
                    05/16 started BEP round 1 - HCG 360000
                    06/14 started BEP round 2 - HCG 7438
                    06/28 stem cells harvested
                    07/16 BEP round 3 - HCG 6486
                    07/30 HCG 1847
                    08/13 - HGC 3437 - moved to high dose chemo. round 1 TI
                    08/22 - HGC 4797
                    08/27 - HCG 2251 - round 2 TI
                    09/06 HCG 857
                    09/10 HCG 279 - round 1 high dose CE

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Day 6

                      Feeling pretty good today. Platelets at 90 and WBC at 20m. The doctors say they expect that to crash over the next few days then slowly recover as the stem cells take. At the moment I'm pretty happy though as I'm felling in good shape so hopefully the slump won't be too bad.
                      05/15 diagnosed stage III C choriocarcinoma - lost righty
                      05/16 started BEP round 1 - HCG 360000
                      06/14 started BEP round 2 - HCG 7438
                      06/28 stem cells harvested
                      07/16 BEP round 3 - HCG 6486
                      07/30 HCG 1847
                      08/13 - HGC 3437 - moved to high dose chemo. round 1 TI
                      08/22 - HGC 4797
                      08/27 - HCG 2251 - round 2 TI
                      09/06 HCG 857
                      09/10 HCG 279 - round 1 high dose CE

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Day 7

                        So after spending most of yesterday asleep I feel pretty good today. Bloods are just dropping now (WBC at 7 and platelets at 100). Oxygen remains normal so I assume my hemoglobin is still holding up. Able to eat ok and the nausea isn't too bad. Now boredom is the major factor as I'm not a bit fan of sitting round this much. Hopefully just a week before the stems kick in and I can escape.
                        05/15 diagnosed stage III C choriocarcinoma - lost righty
                        05/16 started BEP round 1 - HCG 360000
                        06/14 started BEP round 2 - HCG 7438
                        06/28 stem cells harvested
                        07/16 BEP round 3 - HCG 6486
                        07/30 HCG 1847
                        08/13 - HGC 3437 - moved to high dose chemo. round 1 TI
                        08/22 - HGC 4797
                        08/27 - HCG 2251 - round 2 TI
                        09/06 HCG 857
                        09/10 HCG 279 - round 1 high dose CE

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Day 8

                          So today my WBC is down to 1 and platelets down to 45. Should zero out tomorrow and then its just the waiting game till my body restarts. I'm feeling fine and able to eat nearly normal amounts so that's good. Otherwise nothing else to report.
                          05/15 diagnosed stage III C choriocarcinoma - lost righty
                          05/16 started BEP round 1 - HCG 360000
                          06/14 started BEP round 2 - HCG 7438
                          06/28 stem cells harvested
                          07/16 BEP round 3 - HCG 6486
                          07/30 HCG 1847
                          08/13 - HGC 3437 - moved to high dose chemo. round 1 TI
                          08/22 - HGC 4797
                          08/27 - HCG 2251 - round 2 TI
                          09/06 HCG 857
                          09/10 HCG 279 - round 1 high dose CE

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Day 9 to 15

                            Life turned a bit messier for these days. First I got fever then some nasty stomach pains which I needed morphine for a few days for. When they passed I had diarrhea every 20 minutes for about 3 days. Not a pleasant week but soon as my WBC came back to the normal range I was released. I also found that my lovely doctor had reduced the growth factor by half so that's why it was taking a long time fr my WBC to come up. So new hospital Tuesday for round 2...
                            05/15 diagnosed stage III C choriocarcinoma - lost righty
                            05/16 started BEP round 1 - HCG 360000
                            06/14 started BEP round 2 - HCG 7438
                            06/28 stem cells harvested
                            07/16 BEP round 3 - HCG 6486
                            07/30 HCG 1847
                            08/13 - HGC 3437 - moved to high dose chemo. round 1 TI
                            08/22 - HGC 4797
                            08/27 - HCG 2251 - round 2 TI
                            09/06 HCG 857
                            09/10 HCG 279 - round 1 high dose CE

                            Comment

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