Testim Gel

[Andycoles]

I've just been prescribed 5mg daily doses of Testim Gel from my oncologist (my endocrinologist is a numpty, and seemed loathed to help me), which I'm starting tomorrow.

Does anyone have any experience of using this, cuz all the other posts I could find were concerning Testogel or Androgel. It seems to be the same thing basically (same dosage and application precautions), but i wondered if anyone had any stories.

Thanks

[Logan]

Im currently using Testim, and have been for about 12 weeks now, I use 10mg daily one tube per arm. I find the worst part of it for me is the sticky aftermath. Once its applied to my upper arms they are tacky and my shirts stick to my arms for a couple of hours after, it does wear off after a while but the stickiness after drives me crazy.

On a side note though, I have developed almost a type of rash on the application areas in the last week or so. My upper arms have broken out in little bumps that can get pretty itchy at times. Im just waiting to see my Doctor to see if its from the Testim or not. I don't know if anyone else has had anything like that happen when using Testim, Androgel or Testo.

[Andycoles]

Thanks for the info logan, I'll keep an eye out for any rash on my arms. I know what you mean about the stickyness, i've spent all yesterday peeling my sleeve off my arm. I've also started getting used to the smell of it (not nasty, but always around), someone just asked me if i'm using a new deodorant

[Logan]

I actually just put a small dash of baby powder on my upper arms after to take the sticky edge off.

[nickohs]

Hey Andy,

As Logan says, some talcum powder of rollon deoderant stops the stickiness. I apply tomy sides, rather than on the shoulder.
I also think 5g is going to be too little. Your GP has started you on the standard 5g dose. Don't be afraid to adjust the dose yourself and lead the GP.
When I was on Testim, I found it better in terms of properties, than Androgel/Testogel which I now use. It ain't sticky, but aside from that doesnot seem to give the same bang for the buck as Testim does.

Glad you are getting sorted now

Cheers

Nick

[kurt Hansen]

hi
I have been using testim and androgel for a long time but the last two years have I been using 3 months injections and I think that it is best that I have been using, you get your injections every 3 months and then you don t have to think of it for the nexst 3 months and
I feel good and healty.

[Andycoles]

Kurt,
I was originally put onto 3 weekly injections of Sustanon, which only lasted about 1.5 weeks, and then went onto the 12 weekly injections of Nebido, which didn't work at all (left it for 3 weeks, and found no obvious improvements). This is the reason that I was moved to the daily gel, because the injections didn't seem to get absorbed into my body, for some reason.

I was of the same thought as you, in that i would much rather have an injection and not have to worry about it for a few weeks, but for some reason, they just don't work on me.

[Andycoles]

I'm thinking of upping my daily dose of Testim to 10mg per day, because i'm still feeling lousy on 5mg. I know it's not an immediate miracle cure, but i was expecting to be feeling some changes by now. Unfortunately, my endo and cancer nurse both appear to be on leave at the moment, so I can't ask their advice.

With the limited knowledge I have of these things, I can't see any obvious problems with this, only that it might make my levels too high for a while, and turn me a bit larey, which would be better than the emotional mess than I am at the moment.

I thought I'd ask everyones advice, to see if you all think i'm doing the right thing. After all, it's not going to be for very long, as they should be back off leave in a couple of weeks.

Thanks

[nickohs]

My advice Andy is to increase the dose in two stages. You can keep half the pack in a fridge overnight without a problem. Try it for a week and seehow it goes before increasing if necessary.

Cheers

Nick

[Andycoles]

I got the results back from my latest round of blood which were taken on Wednesday, and the results are good . Since starting on the combination of Nebido and Testim 250, my total T levels have shot up from 6.1 to 20.2 in three weeks.

I'm still feeling like c**p all the time, and am showing the symptoms of low testosterone, but my GP now thinks that a lot of this could be psycological until I get my head around the fact the cancer has gone for good.

Lets hope so......

[Jesster]

I never thought of using powder, How long do you wait before adding it, by the way I got my wife jealous, she thought I was wearing cologne to entice the women at work she didn't believe my it was the testim smell, I didn't take it for 2weeks after my surgery so now realizes it was the gel.

[nomis]

Im on Tostran gel which by the sounds of things is the same as Testim but twice the strength (2%, but still very mild dose)
This has the same "stickness" & non drying problems as testim.
Has ANYONE any idea why they make this stuff in such a way?
Ive been trying to find this out for a couple of years now even writing to the manufacturers!
SURELY in this day & age they could make a gel that dries a lot faster? after all there is only ONE important ingredient .. Testosterone!
Im reading about Acrux's planned new underarm spray they hope to get approved one day, it apparently will dry instantly. That will buck up the existing drug companies into refining their products to make them more user friendly!

[Andycoles]

Well, i'm now OFF of the Testim Gel.

I saw my endo yesterday (the numpty previously mentioned), and he wants me to quit the gels to get an accurate reading of how the Nebido injection I had 10 weeks ago is working now. I've been booked for a blood test on Thursday, and depending on what the results are, i've either got to get the next injection now, or wait a further two weeks and have it then (which will take me right through my birthday, christmas holiday, and up to new years eve! NICE).

Can anyone tell me what the limits are for free T in the UK? I know it is roughly 10 to 30, because my last result came back as 20.2, which he said was bang in the middle, but I couldn't find the limits anywhere.

One thing he did say was that he thinks the mood and lethargy i've been feeling recently is all down to my brain not coping with everything that happened over the last year, which is how I was heading with it, so at least we agree on this point

[nomis]

well Ive read it varies from area to area depending on the testing lab! I know this sounds bizarre but its something to do with their averages. In my health area (Glasgow) the healthy levels are said to be between 13 & 30. (I think there are also different scales for measuring hormones?)

[nickohs]

Hey Andy,

Mr Numpty needs to read the Nebido prescribing info, the idiot.

If he did, he would find the manufacturer recommends the initial frequency of 6 weeks, building to 12 after a year. This from the following link

Start of treatment

Serum testosterone levels should be measured before start and during initiation of treatment. Depending on serum testosterone levels and clinical symptoms, the first injection interval may be reduced to a minimum of 6 weeks as compared to the recommended range of 10 to 14 weeks for maintenance. With this loading dose, sufficient steady state testosterone levels may be achieved more rapidly.

Clearly with no testicles at all, you need a loading regime. I say again, idiot!

have a look
http://emc.medicines.org.uk/medicine...r%20injection/

also download the product sheet here and print it off. Take it to your endo and watch the bluster. It is on page 11 of the file.
http://bauslibrary.co.uk/PDFS/BULLETIN/Bulletin08.pdf

So its no surprise to me you feel like crap now.

Good luck!

Nick

[Andycoles]

Thanks for that mate. Very interesting reading .
Makes me wonder if this guy has any idea what he is talking about. One positive thing is that he did say he would be retiring in the next month, so I won't have to deal with him again .

I should get the blood results back monday/tuesday, so could be interesting reading. Think I'll make a corporate decision and have a couple of doses of Testim just to keep me going in the mean time.

[Kiwi]

Would the initial 6 week gap be there to allow the Testosterone levels to increase from the low levels. When I started I had a kisk start by using Gel for a few weeks after the first shot, for me this worked well.


Cheers

Kiwi

[nickohs]

Hi Kiwi,

Yeah, Nebido/Reandron takes time to build a consistent level in the body, even in men with a low Testosterone level. I had an animated discussion with the manufacturer's product director about Nebido when it was launched at the Andropause Society's conference in the UK in 2003.

We went through the research and I made my criticisms in support of my statement on the TDC website about a "one size fits all drug being inappropriate as we are all different."
The single dose achieves its level irrespective of whether it sends a guy into overdose conditions or not.. They tried to get me to change my statement, but failed. So now, with their FDA approval application, they include titrating the dose to suit the individual. A small victory.

The research in almost all Testosterone Deficiency articles looks at men with low T levels and both testicles. There is no distinction between them and guys with no nuts in any article I have read.

Hence, when we see a doc, they look at the prescribing info and go with the "standard" protocols, which is crazy of course.

We just have to be aware and make the point forcibly, which isn't easy when you are suffering with low, or zero Testosterone levels.

One day, someone will wake up and we will find drug companies making the point for us. Until then, we must take charge of it ourselves.

Nick

[Kiwi]

My endo has always said that it would take at least a year before the variables close up, its comming up to a year and a half with T levels being monitoired and the variations have closed up but I believe that thats more to do with the reduction in the cycle length.

Seen the endo a couple of weeks ago and they want me to run a few more cycles before reviewing if the cycle should be reduced to 8 weeks but they are also ok for me to top up with some gel near the end of the cycle if I am bing hit with some low T symptoms - they were ok with my ability to self monitor ane being aware of not heading for extra high levels.

Cheers

Kiwi

[Andycoles]

Well the blood results have come back, and I was right. My T level has gone down to 8.2, so i'm now booked in to have my next shot of Nebido. Couldn't get in until Wednesday, so I will take a dose of Testim just to keep me going. Hopefully this will convince them to either increase my dosage or reduce the frequency.

Should now be a happy christmas (although with a sore arse )